'Europe is not sensitive enough to Israeli loss of life'

The Israeli Ambassador to Malta, Ehud Gol, does not beat about the bush. He has strong reservations about the Arabs and does not trust Europe in general, claiming the EU has often toed the Palestinian line.

Do you think the enlarged EU should become more involved in the Middle East peace process? Do you trust Europe?

As an Israeli, when I look at you today I am jealous, but I still don't want to be part of Europe.

Why not?

Our association with the EU is an ideal one. Perhaps in the future, we establish something even closer. But in life you have to be realistic. When the EU offers us membership we will consider it but, of course, I can't see them offering it to us. Though Israel is in Europe you never think of Israel without looking at its neighbours. And if you find one Arab country that answers to the criteria set by the EU, it'll be a major miracle.

Do you see the EU as a superpower which can somewhat make a difference to the situation in the Middle East?

You describe it as a superpower but I will quote a European prime minister I see from time to time who says that Europe is an economic giant but a political midget. Even with 25 countries in its fold!

Why?

There are so many different opinions in this Europe. There are different cultures, languages and approaches. Some countries are not interested in the peace process. Eight out of the 10 acceding countries formed part of the Warsaw Pact, which in the past stood against the West. Why do you think several European countries have adopted an anti-Israeli point of view - this is because of the fact that there are huge Muslim minorities in the western European countries. In France, Jacques Chirac had to take into consideration that six million Muslims participated in the election. Out of the 10 million in Sweden, there are one million Muslims. They are a political power.

But why do you see them as a problem?

Because there is a nucleus of radical Islamists in the West that lead not only to terrorism but a new wave of anti-semitism.

Aren't you generalising?

In the last few years there have been burning synagogues and desecrated cemeteries.

Why are you blaming the Muslims for it? It could be neo-Nazis.

No, I am talking about facts. There are three origins of anti-Semitism in Europe today. There is radical Islam, extreme right-wing ideology and extreme left-wing elements and the latter are collaborating with radical Islamists.

So what you are indirectly saying is that Israel can never trust Europe...

We can say that Israel has a lot of reasons not to feel comfortable with certain aspects in Europe. History has taught us that, too. Recently the positions of Europe weren't close to ours. Europe should take into account the Israeli interests as well. Europe is not sensitive enough to the Israeli loss of life. I was a director general of Europe at our foreign ministry when the Intifada started. At the beginning they used to send us letters of condolences every time the Israelis were killed. If it was fewer than 10 people that died, they didn't bother sending anything. Then the quota increased.

Rhetoric aside, do you honestly see any role at all for Malta to be involved in the Middle East peace process?

Let's be realistic. Malta outside the EU had no political power unlike now that you're inside the Union. Being a member of the EU, Malta cannot play a part in a unilateral policy but has to align itself with the EU. And because of Malta's special relations with the Arab world I believe Malta can influence. And I am not exaggerating. Being part of the EU club, you don't take account of the size. Malta is four per cent of the EU.

But what role do you see Malta playing?

It can be a mediator and I'm not saying this to be nice to you. Within the context of the EU, your role is bigger. In the last 10 years, the UN has always toed the Arab line. Malta has only aligned itself with Israel on rare occasions. Now Malta will have to join the unanimous decision of the 25 EU countries.

Do you still believe we're more pro-Palestinian?

If you look at your votes in the UN, it's a fact. But I knew that things would have to change once it's part of the EU. So now if I'm angry with Malta I will be angry with the EU.

Israel has targeted the last two leaders of Hamas. The international response was one of overall condemnation. How would you describe this reaction, considering that the group is widely touted as a terrorist group?

I think the reaction was bizarre. This is the same EU which took 10 years to realise this group was a terrorist one. When you deal with terrorism you have to take proper measures. And we actually did what was needed for us to defend ourselves. These people were behind the assassination of many Israelis and projected the death of others. By targeting them, it ensured the lives of Israelis.

Or triggered off more fundamentalism?

That's what Europe thinks. It's easy for Europe to say that. Our duty is to defend the lives of Israelis and that also includes building a barrier to minimise the number of attacks against us. If we manage to save the life of one Israeli child it's worth it.

Isn't attacking Hamas in the long term counterproductive?

What's the other choice? Appeasement or Zapaterismo? (snide reference to the Spanish Prime Minister's withdrawal of troops from Iraq). Appeasement with terrorism only leads to more blood and violence. Discussing in a mature and normal way with these people is impossible. Hamas doesn't even want to negotiate with us. They want to destroy us, kill us!

Do you see the US as an ally all the way and what are your views following its apparent mishandling of the war in Iraq?

The fact that Zapatero decided to leave Iraq doesn't mean that the whole world is against the US. The US doesn't automatically support us in every action and that's why it has credibility. Europe stands automatically with the Arabs. Unfortunately, after 14 months in Iraq, things are not going that well. But still the situation in Iraq is a million times better. One dangerous threat has been eliminated. So what if weapons of mass destruction weren't discovered? This is the same Iraq that tortured thousands for year, the same Iraq that launched 39 missiles against Israel.

But the threats remain and Iraq is still a dangerous place.

Arabs are killing Arabs. That's what's happening. But ultimately the results will arrive. Just look at Libya. What prompted Muammar Gaddafi to have this sudden change of heart? Some divine intervention? Even the Iranians are being careful because they realise there is a new world order.

Yasser Arafat has been keeping quite a low profile and yet Ariel Sharon somewhat hinted that he would still like to see him dead. Why?

Arafat continues to play a negative role. He is the major cause of the tragedy of his own people because he is supporting terrorists.

How do you know?

Because we know - that's all I can say.

So do you agree with his elimination?

We don't want to eliminate him but he likes the idea because it puts him in the headlines. It's something Sharon insinuated, but didn't even say.

Mr Sharon's Likud party rejected his Gaza pullout plan. There are clearly internal problems within the Likud. What are your views?

I'm amazed by the fact that 40 per cent of the Likud voted that way. For a Prime Minister from the Likud Party to go to his own party and suggest a complete evacuation from the area is unheard of. Even settlers are prepared to make concessions to reach peace. The brutal assassination of a mother and her four daughters definitely influenced the vote. Mind you the vote is non-binding so the idea is still there.

Do you trust any Palestinian?

Even those we might think can be trusted are subjected to the intimidation of the majority of the extreme elements. Even the moderate Palestinians cannot express their moderation because they are afraid for their life.

We keep hearing from several world leaders that they are optimistic of a peaceful agreement in the Middle East. But let's face it, this seems to be nothing more than wishful thinking. Are you optimistic?

The key is Europe. If Europe wants to attain peace it will manage. Europe must tell the Palestinians in a very clear voice that four years ago, an Israeli prime minister came to you and gave you a sensational offer. You rejected it. You are not supposed to be rewarded but punished for that rejection. Either you adopt the roadmap and stop terrorism or forget it. And Arafat didn't pay a price for refusing that offer.

Do you believe Europe is somewhat overly cautious because it's ultimately scared of being hit at home?

Yes. Unfortunately you can't do what Zapatero did. It's an invitation to terrorism. Do you think that by appeasing to al-Qaeda and other terrorists, you are not going to be hit again?