The Nationalist Party’s outgoing assistant secretary general Jean Pierre Debono tells Jacob Borg he acted in good faith in his handling of proxy votes in the PN leadership election but admits his record keeping could have been better. He also says he was never part of Adrian Delia’s plan to take up a seat in Parliament.
In summer you dismissed reports that you would be giving up your seat for Adrian Delia as an outright lie. Now, you have given it up. Were you the one telling the outright lie back then?
No. This is definitely not the case. Given the way circumstances evolved, somebody had to take the bold decision. I was the one to freely go to Dr Delia and offer my seat. I was convinced back then that I shouldn’t give it up.
But then, the way things were evolving, it was clear that my colleagues on the seventh district were willing to give up the seat if elected through the by-election. So, I made up my mind on Saturday [September 23].
I called Dr Delia, I met him, and I was the one to take a decision, because we needed closure on this.
Do you feel it is unfair that the decision fell on you, as there were easier routes for Dr Delia to get into Parliament?
It is not a question of fairness ultimately. Somebody had to decide, and I came forward. Nobody pressured me. Nobody called me. It was my decision.
But what about the people who voted for you, surely they are saying it is an unfair decision?
Yes… I met a lot of people. I had several calls. I must say that, by and large, people understood my decision. They backed me. They were pretty convinced it was the right decision to take. There were some people who needed a good discussion to be convinced.
Ultimately, by and large, I had a lot of support from the seventh district.
So you were never part of this plan [to get into Parliament] that Dr Delia used to speak about?
No, never. We never discussed it. Ever.
What have you been promised in return, as obviously it is quite a huge sacrifice?
Yes, it was a huge sacrifice. What I told Dr Delia was that if I can fit into his plans, we will discuss it. If he has some sort of plan in which I can fit, where I can be of service to the party, I will take the opportunity.
But, so far, we never discussed the possibility of me being a personal assistant or personal secretary [to Delia].
What about something more specific, like contesting the MEP elections?
We never discussed the MEP elections, I’m not interested.
Are you going to be compensated for your loss of a parliamentary salary?
We never discussed the pay.
So you are not going to be given a pay increase at the PN to make up for this?
Let me be blunt. So far, we did not discuss a pay increase, we did not discuss a role. So far, we only discussed the fact that I finished my term as assistant secretary general.
So are those two things on the agenda though, because you said so far you haven’t discussed them?
Now the ball is in his court.
But I’m sure it is something you would have brought up.
Ultimately, I think it is not about money. I never factored the money into the equation. I am willing to be of service to the Nationalist Party. If I fit into his plans, so be it. If not… but so far, we have not discussed any specific role within the PN, or contesting an election. No.
There were people who encouraged me to contest the MEP elections. It entails a lot of sacrifice, Kristy and I have a relatively young family. At this point in time, it is definitely not the case.
One of the other permutations mentioned is Kristy Debono being one of the anointed ones for the deputy leadership role or some other leadership role in the party. Have you discussed that with Dr Delia?
No. Kristy, so far, is still undecided about contesting the deputy leadership. We have been discussing it, but she is still undecided. And it wasn’t part of the equation either.
When did you first hear of Dr Delia’s interest to contest the PN leadership role, and when did you start backing him?
I got to know about two weeks after the general election. At that point in time, I was still hesitant to take a position. Then, when I saw things taking shape, I believed that Dr Delia was the right man for the job.
You have been accused of having a conflict of interest. As assistant secretary general, you obviously had access to data about the PN members, while openly backing Dr Delia. How do you respond to that?
The data about the members was frozen. It was accessible to all candidates. I do not believe that I gave any advantage to Dr Delia.
What came out in the social media [leaked Whatsapp messages] obviously exposed me as backing Dr Delia. But, other officials were backing other candidates. There were other MPs and other employees within the PN who publicly backed other candidates.
Nobody spoke about a potential conflict of interest these people may have had.
In a sense, the fact that your backing was not public almost makes it more underhanded…
No, it wasn’t underhanded.
So it was well known within the party?
Other officials backed other candidates. But I’m not here to hang our dirty linen in public. I think everybody had the opportunity to back one candidate or the other. I find nothing wrong with officials or media management backing a candidate.
I think next time round I should trust less. I should vet the whole process
I don’t think it gives an unfair advantage. I think the disadvantage Dr Delia had back then was that he came from outside the party, so it was even more difficult for him to make it.
Do you see the irony that one of his battle cries was anti-establishment, in the sense that the PN establishment was working against him, when you are part of the establishment.
I am one of the many. Basically, the establishment, if you want to call it that…
That’s what Dr Delia called it…
Let’s face it. The way the party structures worked was not in favour of Dr Delia…
So you saw that from within the party?
When you have the Administrative Council making its opinion public, the ex-leader too, I think it speaks for itself.
So you think that was unfair?
I do not think it was unfair, I think Dr Delia was at a huge disadvantage and he managed to make it.
As the assistant secretary general, you have been in the role for nine years, making you one of the longest serving officials. A lot of the other officials have resigned due to past election losses. You have clung on. How come you never took partial responsibility for the results?
It wasn’t just me. There are other officials, Karol Aquilina, as president of the Administrative Council, has been there for eight years. Paula Mifsud Bonnici, as president of the General Council, has been there for eight to nine years. So, we took responsibility. I announced that I would not contest the role of assistant secretary general. So I shouldered responsibility.
Were you taken aback by the 2017 election result?
Yes. I do not believe Simon Busuttil deserved such a result. We had a good cause. We fought the election. We did not deserve such a result. Yet, the electorate spoke, so…
Isn’t that a concern in itself that the party did not see it coming?
During the campaign I felt that something wasn’t working as it should be. I campaigned for eight months. The feedback I was getting and relaying to the party leader was positive.
I visited 40 per cent of the district. The feedback was positive. I never expected such a result.
But, during the electoral campaign, I felt that people were shifting back to Labour, somehow. That is why I then decided we needed a drastic change.
I saw that change in Adrian Delia.
You were responsible for the sectional committees and grassroots organisation.
In part, yes. And the sectional committees worked a lot. The membership of the party in the last two years went up like never before. But still, people decided to vote Labour. So we need to take stock of the situation.
From my personal analysis, the feedback was for a need for drastic change. The councillors of the General Council voted in favour of Dr Delia – he got nearly 47 per cent of the vote, which was a big feat for an outsider. Then, he had quite a good result against all odds from the PN members.
You said quite a good result, were you surprised it was so close?
At first I expected better, but a careful look at the members of the party showed that the average age was 60, which suggests many were afraid of change. So in the final days I was expecting such a result.
Many of the people who are resisting change are the actual MPs who served under Dr Busuttil. How do you think Dr Delia will manage to get them on board?
I think he will manage. It is still early days. We have to go through a healing process. We have to work for a common goal. I think we will get there.
During the summer many stories emerged about how lifelong PN members were being told they were not allowed to vote in the leadership election. You had blamed that on the party’s electoral commission…
No no, I explained that. There were some lifelong members who came to party headquarters and found out they were not entitled to vote. Stories emerged in the media that this was my fault.
If you are a lifelong member, pre-2015, you are automatically entitled to vote. I told the people who spoke to me they were entitled to vote. Then the commission analysed each case, and there were a handful of cases, and the commission solved the issue.
When I saw things taking shape, I believed that Adrian Delia was the right man for the job
On to the famous proxy case. You had someone turning up at party headquarters to pick up his vote, and was told that Jean Pierre Debono had picked it up for him. The electoral commission pointed a finger at you. What is your explanation?
The electoral commission called me about this when I was at a funeral. I went to party headquarters immediately, I gave my explanation. I gave my explanation in writing. Then, I read the report about me in Malta Today.
Do you think it was leaked maliciously?
I can’t tell. If it was malicious, then the person leaking the information should face the music, but I am not going to get into that.
Basically there was a particular [sectional] committee member who I do not recall. The person who came to pick up the vote does not recall [who] the person [was].
He left a proxy at my office. With all good intentions I went to pick up his vote. He came to my office and I gave him his voting document. I was not aware that this particular committee member forged, or allegedly forged, his signature.
I gave a full explanation to the commission. I am willing to give this explanation to the Administrative Council.
The issue with all the proxies was that the commission said the way it was being done was not by the usual rules. Why were you using this system, I’m sure you knew what the rules were?
Basically, there were no particular rules governing the proxies. The only issue the commission confronted me with was that I could not verify the signatures. Even the electoral commission was not in a position to verify every signature. If you come with somebody else’s proxy, how can the commission verify?
Their argument was that the proxy documents should have been signed in front of you…
Ok. Ok. But, if I had trusted committee members, who we trust with membership money and party documentation, and they come with a proxy of a family member or friend, I did not doubt them.
I acted in good faith. I explained this to the commission, and they gave me the impression they understood the whole situation. They then went on to describe this as a ħadma [ruse]… If I had the report before it was published in the media…
Would you have been entitled to see the report before, seeing that you were involved?
I think if you are questioning a particular member about a case I think he should have the copy before the media.
So do you think the ruse was against you?
I am not going to judge people. I think the word chosen was not the right word. I acted in good faith. I gave a full explanation, it is the same explanation I am giving to you.
Acting in good faith isn’t always enough. If you had a job to do…
Ok, but there weren’t particular regulations regulating the [electoral] commission. First the commission were going by proxies, then they were going by ID cards. I knew of cases where people showed a picture of their ID card on their mobile. So, there weren’t particular rules.
A section of the media reported that there were hundreds of proxies [being issued]. It wasn’t the case. There were fewer than 30 in 15 days.
I believe this thing was blown out of proportion. But I am not the person to judge, as the whole thing concerns me.
At the end of the day, the most worrying part was that a document was forged. Have you managed to get to the bottom of who did it?
I have not managed. The commission asked the person who came to collect his vote, and he does not recollect [who] the person [is]. I do not recollect [who] the person [is].
If this particular voter can remember, because he said he gave verbal consent to a particular person… People come and go to my office all the time.
I did not keep record of the proxies which were handed to me.
So was that at the very least sloppy record keeping?
Maybe I should have kept some record? But I never suspected a person would forge a document and leave it at my office.
So a case of lesson learnt then?
I think next time round I should trust less. I should vet the whole process.
I think even when it comes to the electoral commission, as a suggestion maybe, the commission should ask to see the ID card of the person with the proxy.
In a nutshell
■ Claims he freely offered his seat in Parliament to Adrian Delia.
■ Says he wasn’t promised anything in return.
■ Is not interested in contesting the MEP elections.
■ Sees nothing wrong in PN officials openly backing leadership candidates.
■ Thinks the party structures worked against Dr Delia.
■ Felt people were shifting back to Labour during the election campaign.
■ Feels the proxy votes issue has been blown out of proportion…but admits he could have been more assiduous in his record-keeping.
Seven to contest casual election
Seven nominations have been received by the Electoral Commission for the casual election being held in the seventh electoral district after Jean Pierre Debono resigned his parliamentary seat. Nominations were submitted by Sam Abela, Joseph Antoine Borg, Dounia Borg, Peter Micallef, David Vassallo, Ian Mario Vassallo (PN) and Lee Bugeja Bartolo (Democratic Party). Mr Debono gave up his seat to pave the way for new PN leader Adrian Delia to enter the House of Representatives. Dr Delia will be co-opted to Parliament if whoever is elected to replace Mr Debono also gives up his seat. All PN candidates have pledged to do so and the PD have admitted their candidate will not win enough votes to block his path.