On the victory trail

Labour Party leader Alfred Sant believes his party is on course to win the next general election after winning three successive elections. In an interview with Herman Grech, Dr Sant explains why he believes more Nationalist supporters are switching their allegiance to Labour.

Do you think the local council election results realistically reflect the mood of the electorate?
Yes they do. There's disillusionment with the government. There's also an increasing conviction that what the Labour Party is saying makes sense. We know how to get out of the mess we're in.

Do you really believe that a traditional Nationalist supporter could be enticed to vote Labour in a general election?
Yes, why not?

Why should they?
We say the truth. We deliver on what we promise and we propose realistic programmes. The other side doesn't.

Dr Sant, do you agree that the country needs reforms?
Of course. We've been saying this since 1996.

This is what the government is doing at the moment.
But the government cannot be credible in managing reform. Up until two years ago, the government was saying that everything's moving in the right direction - that the country's finances are on a sound basis and that progress was the order of the day. Now they're saying we need reforms while at the same time the Prime Minister is refusing to admit we have an economic and social crisis. How can they generate credibility?

It's always easier for the opposition to sit on the fence and criticise. You are critical of most, not to say all, the government's moves. What exactly will an MLP government do differently?
Quite a lot of things. We've always said that the government's spending has to be reined in. For the last six to seven years, the government's done the opposite. We need to push productive investment and provide incentives that make sense. Priority should be given to industry and tourism. We've been making a lot of proposals to encourage new productive ventures and new job opportunities.

Don't you think it's time to deal with issues like pensions and social security abuse? Why do you chastise the government for tackling them?
The government is running after the small guy, when the big problems hover around issues like the Mater Dei Hospital and Dar Malta in Brussels where the government is squandering millions of liri. Look at the way they tried to curb kerosene abuse. The government raised the price indiscriminately across the board instead of checking those that are really abusing the system.

What about the long-overdue reforms in places like the shipyards, Public Broadcasting Services...?
I don't call those reforms. PBS is in a bigger mess than it has ever been. And all the government's done with the shipyards is to shift liabilities without creating new productive initiatives.

Shifting where?
The government is still carrying the cost of the workers.

What would you do?
We'll take the Grand Harbour area and push it into a big redevelopment project. Workers from the shipyards could contribute to that. It can be done.

Do you think the country needs unpopular measures at this point in time?
I think we lost the 1998 election because we were prepared to take much-needed unpopular measures...

... and this is what the Gonzi administration is doing.
But it's not credible in putting forward these measures because two years ago it was saying the opposite thing. Secondly, it's doing the same things with the same people in charge who cannot deliver. It's a vicious circle.

What people?
All the ministers!

Do you honestly think all the ministers are incompetent?
Look at the Education Minister who has been caught time after time manipulating his quangos to achieve certain results, which results then favour people in his constituency, contractors etc... And the Prime Minister keeps defending him.

What do you think of Lawrence Gonzi?
He's a nice chap - but he's not delivering.

Many people accuse him of doing too much.
Like what? I'm asking you because I honestly can't see anything. We're actually creating more wastage. Look at the way we're tackling the issue of funding from the EU. People tell me that when they make project proposals there's not enough background and back-up to help them through.

Are you saying the government wasn't prepared for EU membership?
Definitely. Ask entrepreneurs. If they want to get some information they have no choice but to resort to other permanent representations in Brussels and not our own.

Do you think the country has a problem with tax evasion?
Every country has a problem with tax evasion and VAT has not made it any easier.

Would you eliminate VAT?
I'm not saying that. VAT is here to stay.

So how would you control tax evasion?
We need better controls and management and less bureaucracy. The government needs to curb its expenditure. We launched a plan in December which proposed a cut in expenditure of five per cent a year. That would lead to savings of Lm60 million a year on the basis of current expenditure. We would introduce accrual accounting systems. The government promised it in 1999 and it hasn't done anything about it.

The MLP document on economic regeneration was lambasted by the Nationalist Party. Certain proposals made in that document were seemingly retreated by your own party.
In politics you ask an independent panel of experts and tell them to come out with their own ideas. You then bounce off the ideas against what you want to achieve. That report did not bind the MLP in any way. It provided a platform for discussion. We are discussing it internally and getting reactions to it. We would not be stampeded into saying this or that.

Do you agree it proposed some very unpopular measures?
Look, we asked these experts to put forward their ideas, whether popular or unpopular. Let them put in what they think is best. We'll discuss them.

Why does the MLP appear to take ages before deciding on anything? I mean, why is it taking so long for the party to take a stand on the EU Constitution?
Has the government decided about the EU Constitution because as far as I know the PN hasn't even discussed it?

The government declared it was in favour of the Constitution from day one.
Yes, it would say that because the government negotiated on its own basis. But has there been an open discussion? We take our time to reason things out and set timeframes. It's the democratic way of doing things. Other countries are doing the same thing.

As far as I know, all the European Socialist parties have long decided they are in favour of the EU Constitution.
The British Labour Party hasn't yet decided on the matter and the British government has set a referendum furthest down the line.

Tony Blair is openly supporting the EU Constitution.
But the Labour Party hasn't decided as yet.

I think if he has taken a decision then his party is following suit.
Then we'll see.

Do you envisage a scenario where the MLP will give the Constitution the thumbs down?
Yes, why not? Other parties have done it - like the Greens in Sweden.

Do you still believe the electorate made the wrong choice about EU membership?
I still believe that what we were proposing was the best option for the country. Yes, I still believe in it.

Do you think you'll be proven right?
This is not something about being proven right in two, three or five years. We can't keep arguing over who was right or wrong. Now that we are EU members we have to make the best of it. We have to get the best bargains.

What kinds of disadvantages have come about because of EU membership?
Prices have been increasing by four to five per cent every quarter.

There's also been the elimination of levies, which has brought prices down.
There's been the removal of levies on one side and the introduction of new levies on items like meat, sugar and milk.

Do you agree that fears bandied about in the run-up to the EU referendum have not materialised? Migration, for instance; one could hardly say any foreigners are seeking jobs in Malta.
There are (foreigners seeking jobs). I mean it's not a big wave at the moment.

Do you honestly think there will be a big wave in future?
Not necessarily, because the economy is becoming so depressed that people wouldn't want to come to Malta anyway. In fact, most stories I hear revolve around people wanting to migrate.

I guess in the next year, the parties will start gearing up for the next general election and will draw up policy papers that will eventually end up as manifestos. What are we to expect from the MLP?
We will have an economic and social recovery programme by mid-summer which should set out our priorities and then we will deal with each sector individually. It's crucial to secure economic growth. If we don't manage that we're in big trouble. We need to get more out of the government with less. And then we need to think about reducing taxation, in relative or absolute terms.

Would your government reduce taxation?
We should first target a reduction of government expenditure. If that happens and we manage to increase economic growth then in relative terms, taxation will go down. In absolute terms, we would have to analyse exactly what kind of targets we want to achieve. Tax reduction should be one of the objectives but we have to be realistic.

The MLP is often criticised for its ties "with people from the past"...
The PN is linked with the people from the past. What applies to the goose applies to the gender. I mean our President is the former Prime Minister.

Do you think Manwel Cuschieri was a sacrificial lamb? Should he be allowed back on party media?
He is still in the media.

But he's hardly being given the prominence he used to be.
It was something which was agreed with him.

Many Labourites would still like to see George Abela back in the fold. Do you think there's space for him?
There's space for everybody.

Are you willing to speak to Dr Abela?
I speak to everybody.

Are you prepared to build a stronger team around you in the run-up to the election?
We have a very strong team. We've just won three elections in a row. That's quite a winning team.

What's the difference between the MLP in 2005 and the one you found when you took over as leader?
What's changed in the last 12 years is that the MLP is perhaps more open to the middle class, we're able to launch more new ideas and we're more prepared to adapt ourselves to changing circumstances.

And do you think this is enough to entice new supporters?
Well, we did it in 1996, and we did three times over the last 10 months.

Can the MLP do it in the coming general election?
Of course, most definitely.