The world doesn't care

As the Israeli war against Hamas enters its third week, a "cynical" Ambassador to Malta Gideon Meir tells Herman Grech that the real Israel is not the biased one the media are trying to sell to the world.

Israeli military officials said yesterday that the offensive in the Gaza Strip had weakened Hamas but that a knockout blow was unlikely. So what, exactly, is Israel hoping to achieve?

The goal was (to) knockout Hamas. The Israeli government's statements at the beginning of the operation made it clear (that the intervention) was to stop the firing of Kassam rockets and ground missiles on the Israeli population. The second goal was to stop the smuggling of weapons from Iran to Hamas. In the past eight years over 9,200 rockets and missiles were fired onto the Israeli people. We were restrained for all this time and the international community did nothing. So when the Hamas declared an end to the ceasefire and continued to fire, we had no choice but to protect our people. This was an act of self defence.

Do you think that this intervention might temporarily halt the rockets but in future aggravate such attacks?

This is a question the Israeli leaders have to discuss. We have to see whether we keep going in to make sure it stops once and for all, but with a high cost of civilian lives and Israeli soldiers. Or do we do it through the political mediation of the Egyptians, who are playing a constructive and positive role in achieving a ceasefire?

Wouldn't it have been better if this political mediation came before the incursion into Gaza? At this stage more than 1,000 people have been killed.

I return the question to you - where was the international community for the last eight years when rockets were being fired into Israel? As a Jewish Israeli I have a bad feeling that the international community doesn't care when it comes to the lives of Israelis. It only cares about the lives of Palestinians unfortunately. Where were the demonstrations when Israelis were killed and in shelters? Do you know that 15 per cent of Israeli people, almost a million people, are in shelters? Children cannot go to school, children are frightened, children are peeing in their beds, they are being killed and wounded. You don't see it on television because the media are not interested in it.

On the other side of the fence, UN figures show that 42 per cent of Gazans are unemployed, 56 per cent suffer from food insecurity and 76 per cent are receiving humanitarian assistance. There are one-and-a-half million people living in a space the size of Malta which many would describe as one big jail.

It's very sad - and you know who's to blame? The Palestinian leadership, the Hamas. In 2005, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip, we dismantled all the settlements, 8,000 Israelis were called back and it was a traumatic pain for society. Instead of taking a major role in rebuilding Gaza, a strong economy, and health and education policies, the Palestinian leadership decided to invest in weapons and explosives. They brought a lot of misery to the people. The last one to be blamed for this is the state of Israel.

I guess you agree with me that not everybody who lives in the Gaza Strip backs Hamas.

The one-and-a-half million living in Gaza are hostages of the Hamas. This is a ruthless organisation. They use their own population to protect themselves. You see Hamas people running around in the streets with children in their arms and they know we're not going to shoot at them if they are carrying children.

You're saying the people in Gaza are victims themselves, so wasn't it a risky operation for Israel to go in?

What's the alternative? How do you protect me from these kinds of missiles? What's your suggestion? The international community did nothing. I know there are a lot of people who don't care if Israelis are killed, but we care. We have a responsibility to our people. Why didn't the international community provide us with protection?

What do you make out of comments by world leaders that the Israeli response is excessive?

It's not excessive. It's self defence. What would you have done if your people were bombarded day in, day out? We're fighting a terrorist group. We're fighting Iran. In 2000, we withdrew from the Lebanon border. We got Iran instead. We withdrew from Gaza in 2005. We got Iran as neighbours. We give back territories and we get Iran.

It might have become a clichéd question, but don't you fear that the Israeli intervention is moulding more militants?

What's happened for the past 20 years? Terrorism is coming out of Palestinian schools. We've had hijacking of aircraft, buses exploding... and so on. What we hear from Gaza now is that they're fed up - Hamas is filling the people of Gaza with misery. Our soldiers found booby-trapped schools and zoos. They use private homes to launch rockets into Israel. But we have sophisticated intelligence. We got the telephone numbers of everybody who live in houses where Hamas put the weapons. Our people called each of those who live in the houses and told them to leave within 15 minutes. After one day, the Hamas realised what we're doing and told people not to answer the phones. So our people started sending SMSs. They then confiscated their phones. They are using the civilians in a very cynical way. The Palestinian people are not our target. Our target is Hamas.

Israel is dropping leaflets telling Gazans to flee before the bombing - but these people have nowhere to go.

They have to go.

Where? It's a tiny place.

They can't go because of the Hamas, which is forcing them to stay in their own homes. What do you want us to do? Don't be cynical. Where is your voice about Darfur where 300,000 civilians are being killed? In Sri Lanka - 70,000 people. Why do you adopt double standards where Israel is concerned? Where have you been all these years? Where were you when Europe killed so many citizens in former Yugoslavia? But when we're being attacked everyone is quiet. I'm very cynical about the world because the world is very cynical about me. You guys don't care when our people are being attacked and killed. There's a lot of hypocrisy. We have to do what we have to do to protect our people. But the targets are not the Palestinian people.

I am sure it's not Israel's intention to harm civilians. But at the end of the day you have 1.5 million living in a small place, they have nowhere to run for safety, hospitals are stretched and lack basic necessities.

You know why hospitals are over-stretched? Because the terrorists of Hamas are hiding in hospitals. They're wearing the uniforms of doctors and nurses. They have thrown out all the people from the hospitals and the Hamas leadership is now hiding there.

There are reports that dozens of Fatah gunmen belonging to the Aksa Martyrs Brigades are participating in the fighting alongside Hamas gunmen. Don't you fear that the situation is going to escalate before it calms down?

My information is contrary to that. Fatah people are not fighting along with Hamas. Last June, Hamas slaughtered 600 Fatah people. Where was the international community, where were the media when it happened? As long as Arabs were killing Arabs, everyone was quiet because there was no Israel.

In our last interview last May you said that Europeans were receiving a distorted story from the Middle East. Is this why journalists are not being allowed into Gaza?

Journalists are not being allowed into Gaza for two reasons - to protect them and because we cannot allow them to disturb the Israeli operation. Any journalist who is going to go in between soldiers is a risk.

Many people would tell you that this is being done to cover up the atrocities being carried out in Gaza.

You cannot cover up. You have Al Jazeera which is giving a very colourful picture of what's going on. Al Jazeera has become a spokesman and propaganda machine of Hamas. In the last week, pools of journalists were allowed in together with Israeli forces.

Some would tell you that for every Al Jazeera, there are a dozen American news agencies doing the same so-called propaganda for Israel and being taken to places where the Palestinian rockets are landing.

Are you blaming the American media for being part of the Israeli propaganda machinery? Take it up with the American media - I don't think they'll be too happy to hear your statement.

Isn't it obvious that Israel is going to be accused of human rights abuses due to the media restrictions?

We will always be charged with human rights abuses, whatever we do. According to the media, Israel is the main violator of human rights - we don't have women's rights, gay rights, we don't have a free press in Israel. In Iran there are women's rights, gay rights, Iran is a perfect nation. Do you hear your question? When it comes to Jews and Israelis there are different standards.

Amnesty International has urged an investigation into all the parties involved in the Gaza conflict into what it described as abuses of international human rights and humanitarian law, and to ensure full accountability. Do you agree this should be done?

I agree that Israel should continue doing what it has been doing for the past few months and allow humanitarian aid. It's our responsibility and this is what we are doing with the Palestinian people. Just go to the borders and see the huge number of trucks, food and medical supplies being delivered to the Gaza Strip. It's our responsibility that these people don't suffer.

The only ally to the Israeli incursion seems to be the US, while Europe is calling for an immediate ceasefire. Why do you think this comes about?

I disagree with you. Europe is understanding Israel's need for self defence. Europe is concerned about humanitarian aid and the civilians. So are we. Look at Germany, Italy, the Czech Republic.

In 2007, The New York Times reported that Israel and the US signed a deal to give Israel $30 billion in military aid over the next decade. Israel was the sixth largest arms importer in the world for the period 2003 to 2007, according to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. The imbalance in military power between Israelis and Palestinians is reflected in the number of casualties. Is Israel trying to prove its military might?

I would ask a question - why is the international community, this Stockholm institute, not concerned by the fact that we're surrounded by Iran? That Iran is threatening to destroy Israel. Iran represents different values which you in Malta and we in Israel value - human rights! To go back to your question, we have to protect our very existence.

So you're saying that it's a necessity for Israel to arm itself.

It is a necessity in order to survive.

How do you react to accusations that Israel is in cahoots with the US because it's all about money?

This is an anti-Semitic statement.

The military operations have led to protests in many countries throughout the world, including European nations. How will the war in Gaza affect Israel's image abroad in the future?

It's not the first time we've had to protect ourselves. There's a bias against Israel; look at the UN - there are over 100 non-aligned countries which automatically hold a majority against Israel. We have to run a PR machine against 22 Arab countries. But you have to look at the achievements of Israel, the high-tech, the agriculture, scientific, and health field achievements. It's unbelievable, it's a miracle. We don't provide hatred to the world, but peace. This is the real Israel, not the biased one the media is trying to sell to the world. But we're surrounded by enemies who don't want us there.

I spoke to a Palestinian man who said the Israelis want to win elections with Palestinian blood. (Defence minister and Labour leader) Ehud Barak's popularity has shot up since the military intervention. Is he far off the mark?

The last thing I want to hear from Palestinians is some evaluation of democracy. When they have a democracy, I'll be willing to argue. In Israel, it's the ones people trust and who run a good campaign that will get elected. I can tell you that the Labour Party is doing very badly. So don't listen to the nonsense of a Palestinian who really doesn't understand Israel's democracy.

Isn't this war automatically prompting a feeling of patriotism in Israel, and people will support a government for coming down hard on their opponents?

When did you last see the polls?

A few days ago.

The Israeli polls don't support what you're saying. The government is not getting the support, and (opposition leader Benjamin) Netanyahu in opposition is getting more support.

Could that be because Netanyahu represents a more hard-line approach?

Khadima is going down in the polls. The government is losing popularity with the Israelis.

Could it be that this incursion has been going on for too long?

The people are fed up that we are giving land for peace and we are getting Iran on our borders.

During a demonstration in Malta last week in solidarity with the Palestinian people, the police went to stop some of the participants after they believed they were chanting anti Israeli and US slogans. What do you make of that?

You live in a democracy. It's legal to demonstrate. Do you think you can demonstrate like this in Iran or Gaza or any Arab country? In Arab countries you only demonstrate for the things the government wants.

Do you feel the Maltese people are overwhelmingly sympathising with the Palestinian cause at this stage?

I don't think there's a change in Malta. I think there has always been a bit more sympathy for the Palestinians here. But that doesn't mean that the government and the Maltese are anti-Israel. Quite the contrary. We have good relations with the Maltese government and you have an ambassador in Israel. We are now also looking into investing in Smart City. We're looking into real projects.

Watch excerpts from the interview on www.timesofmalta.com.