Israel had just concluded a major offensive in the occupied West Bank and was facing democracy protests at home as Israeli Ambassador Ze’ev Boker travelled to Malta to begin his term. He tells James Cummings that no European citizen is facing a threat like those in Israel.
JC: Can you share any insight into future cooperation between Israel and Malta?
ZB: We are trying to keep good contact between us, so they will be aware of our concerns and interests. We enjoy good relations, but they still have the potential to grow. Malta shares a lot with Israel and we can work together to find some topics of cooperation – ones that are already established as well as new avenues. These could be the water issue, energy, cyber security, agriculture and many others.
JC: Malta has often taken the side of the Palestinian cause, especially at the UN level. How does this make you feel?
ZB: Showing sympathy to the Palestinians is not something we perceive negatively. We are surely not always happy with the way Malta used to vote multilaterally in the past. But whether we agreed or not with the Maltese authorities, we always had an open and transparent way of expressing our agreements and disagreements. If you are two friends, this is the only way to prove you can be open to each other.
We think EU countries should develop a balanced reading of the situation and try to understand not only the Palestinian plight but also the threats and challenges that every Israeli civilian is facing almost daily.
JC: Are the actions of Israel in Jenin proportionate to the threat posed by the Palestinians?
ZB: I do think it is proportionate… If one has never experienced the threat of terrorism, one cannot really try to understand what it means to fight daily for one’s sovereignty.
Almost every day in the last few months, we lost more than 50 civilians and soldiers to terrorist actions. We saw that one of the major places these terrorists came from was Jenin. One cannot sit idle and wait for the terrorists to hit. We waited with our strikes… it was very pinpointed action. All the actions of the IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] is being supervised by our legal advisers.
We are not targeting civilians. If you look at what Hamas is doing, what the Palestinian terrorists in Jenin are doing, they are targeting civilians.
JC: In May last year, US-Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Aqleh was killed by IDF forces. Why has Israel not cooperated with the FBI investigation and why has it not opened its own criminal investigation?
ZB: First of all, we never target journalists. Even in that specific case, which was a full tragedy, no doubt about that. I remember the IDF did investigate that, and we did cooperate with the Americans... or at least share with them the results of our own internal investigation. But you cannot really, in my opinion, take one case – and it had been admitted that it was a very tragic case – and try to build a story.
Two months ago… I had a call from my son, who studies at the University of Jerusalem, and he understood there were going to be incoming rockets from Gaza. He asked me if he should take a bus, as the bus could be hit by rockets. Do you have that kind of dilemma in Malta? Sometimes, people tend to judge you without putting themselves in your place.
We lost so many civilians. I worked with the late Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin... he went all the way to try and find partners in the Palestinian side for a peace agreement... he lost his life because of his devotion to peace by an Israeli terrorist. Nobody could accuse us of not looking for every avenue for peace.
He [my son] asked me if he should take a bus, as the bus could be hit by rockets. Do you have that kind of dilemma in Malta?
JC: She is not alone. Since 2001, 20 journalists have been killed by Israeli forces. What is your response to allegations that Israel’s use of its forces in this conflict is in breach of international law?
ZB: As I said before, and I’m not going to repeat it again, if you look at it in a selective way... you won’t find any military force in the Western camp that will be as selective and distinctive as the IDF.
I don’t know where you are taking your statistics about 20 journalists from — you come with numbers I am not familiar with... you could make the same analysis of Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran... Ask the Iranian ambassador how many Iranians were killed by the Iranian police, did you ask them those questions? Did you speak about Iranian nuclear development? Iran has supplied Russia fighting against Ukraine with the most sophisticated drones.
It’s interesting to criticise Israel. When you look at the UN, Israel – especially in Jenin – is always on the top [of the agenda], but nobody is taking equal measurement about Iran, Syria, about atrocities. The way even you are analysing things is not even-handed.
No European citizens are facing the threat we are facing. Iran is the only country in the world stating very clearly that they want to eradicate the state of Israel off the map. How much did Malta complain about that?
JC: President Biden recently said that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition government has some “of the most extreme members” he’s seen, and that cabinet ministers who back settling “anywhere they want” in the West Bank are “part of the problem” in this conflict. What is your response to this?
ZB: I read what President Biden said, and I agree with you as an Israeli civilian or diplomat that surely the United States is our number one ally, no doubt about that.
By the way, the US being an ally of Israel is not a one-way street... we supplied very sensitive intelligence information to the Americans. So, when they look at us as allies, they also see the benefits.
As I mentioned before, sometimes friends have disagreements. We don’t always see eye to eye on some of the issues, but it doesn’t matter which administration – Democrat or Republican... we do see the US as our strongest ally.
JC: Do you think he has a point?
ZB: I don’t have the privilege of being a journalist, to have an interpretation of our government. I’m a diplomat, I serve whichever government. Like the Maltese diplomat is representing their government [even though they may] not always personally agree with everything their government does. But I think the common denominator for each government is strong enough and wide enough for me as a career diplomat... to represent the state of Israel.
At the end of the day, the composition of the government of Israel is not up to me to criticise, just as I am not criticising the composition of the Maltese government. But the common denominator is wide enough to be able to defend the fact that we are striving for peace, but parallel to it we have to defend our citizens against threats.
No country in the world today has something even close to similar to the threat Israel is facing. If you read the Israeli media, if you read the international media, I can illustrate in five minutes the threats we are facing... you mentioned 20 journalists before, do you know how many Israeli diplomats were killed by terrorists? Sixteen Israeli diplomats have been killed by terrorists. Did you ever ask who killed them? They were killed by Palestinian and Iranian terrorists.
Best friends of mine were lost at our embassy in Buenos Aires due to a bomb that was planted by Hezbollah and assisted by the Iranians. You focus very much on the Israeli-Palestine conflict and you’re right, but the region is much wider.
JC: Recent estimates put the number of Israeli settlers in the West Bank at 600,000. How many will be enough? At what point will settlement of the West Bank stop?
ZB: I am not the spokesperson for the settlers or that region. Israel is obliged to international norms of law, and is obliged to it by its behaviour, and it’s been confirmed by the Israeli Supreme Court many, many times.
Not everybody in Israel is happy with what is happening in Judea and Samaria, and vice versa. But whether we agree if these people are sitting in point ‘A’ or point ‘B’, we as representatives of the government of Israel have to defend our citizens. There were many rounds of negotiations between us and the Palestinians. I mentioned Rabin, and there were others after him. Whatever offers were given were refused.
JC: If we look at Rabin, who was assassinated by an Israeli extremist...
ZB: ... Terrorist, he was a terrorist.
JC: Yes. If we accept that that action represented an ultra-nationalist perspective, do you accept the criticism that the government’s current make-up is perhaps against the spirit of Rabin?
ZB: Again, I don’t have the privilege of being a journalist, sitting on the sofa and saying in retrospect if this leader was best... at the end of the day we are a vibrant democracy, we have elections every four years, sometimes every year... you saw the demonstration today. What could be more clear evidence of the strong democracy we have?
No country in the world today has something even close to similar to the threat Israel is facing
JC: What is your response to these demonstrations against the changes to Israel’s legal system?
ZB: I think it’s evidence of the Israeli democracy. If you look at any places, without mentioning names, look at what happens there. There is a part of the population in Israel trying to verify a part of the democratic system will not be damaged… members of the other side are trying to defend what they see as legitimate.
An Israeli citizen can wake up in the morning being very unhappy with what the right-wing party is doing, and another civilian from the right-wing party will say the opposite. But, at the end of the day, we are doing it in the most democratic way.
JC: If Israel is already such a healthy democracy, why are these changes needed?
ZB: I don’t know. As I said, I am not an interpreter of the current Israeli government, or the former government, I am a diplomat. You’re bringing me back to the same question but you will not get an answer... If you look at other places and the way they fight to protect their democracy, we have nothing to be ashamed of.
JC: How does Israel see the future of the region?
ZB: First of all, I think one should start from analysing the threats. If you start from the outer circle, you will find Iran... with the capability of long-range missiles, which pose a danger to Europe today. They have the capability of nuclear enrichment, which they are not allowed according to their agreements.
Secondly, if you go to our region, the Abraham Accords are firstly giving a future for the region because there is added value to the Gulf countries, Morocco and us.
If you look at the volume of trade between Israel and the UAE, your president and foreign minister was in the UAE recently, just ask them what their impression was of the relationship between the UAE and Israel.
It’s a new perspective, and I think the UAE, for example, could do a lot more for the Palestinians, together with us. But the Palestinians decided to fight against the Abraham Accords and the peace agreement between us, the UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan. It’s nice to blame, but they could be benefitting.
These countries are facing a similar threat from Iran.
This is something you never find in the Maltese media. You find it very rarely, because... [Israel] is easy, it’s on everyone’s radar, everybody talks about Israel.
When was the last time you wrote about the Gulf countries?... Speak about their interests, why they chose to have peace with Israel? They didn’t have peace with Israel before, they didn’t have war [though], that’s correct... we do look in this region, it’s a very prosperous one.
We are looking for opportunities to develop relations with Saudi Arabia. Biden was also asked about it. You only quoted part of what he said, but he did speak about Saudi Arabia. Maybe he’s a bit pessimistic, but he’s very much in favour of helping Israel have normalised relations with Saudi Arabia.
Go closer to our area, we have a peace treaty with Jordan and Egypt. Did you mention to your readers that Israel has signed a gas agreement with Lebanon two years ago? No, it’s not interesting, but I think for Malta, Israel and Lebanon cooperating in the field of gas might be of benefit to Malta in the future.
The fact we are exporting gas through Egypt could be of added value to Malta. These are relevant questions. In the Middle East, you look at the wider perspective. I think that my role here... is also to try to share with your readers the wider picture ‒ what it means to be the state of Israel in the Middle East.