Pastor Gordon Manché is both flattered and frustrated with all the attention he has been getting lately and tells Mark Laurence Zammit why he believes most of the criticism levelled at him is unfair and untrue.

The leader of the most controversial church in Malta insists he never reported comedians to the police for calling him an “asshole”.

He says that what he really reported was the wave of mockery about him, his family and his church.

The multitude of comments – including people calling him “asshole” on social media – have incited a culture of hatred towards his River of Love movement, he says, and he fears it could also be inciting violence towards him or his members.

In an interview, Gordon Manché said he has been enduring mockery and satire about him and his wife for 12 years and he actually enjoys most of it, including when he is impersonated as a flamboyant preacher on satirical television shows.

But he insists the jokes turned nasty last year, when satirist Matt Bonanno suggested in a Facebook comment that his community should be relocated to Buġibba and carpet bombed.

The comedian, who runs the satirical site Bis-Serjetà, is now being charged in court with making online threats in a case which has disturbed many and even sparked a change in the law.

Manché said Bonanno’s post coincided around the same time his church received Facebook messages from a person threatening to shoot them. The fact that the person making the threat has a social media profile photo showing him holding guns raised great concern. The case was reported to the police and the person was charged in court.

But the latest wave of police reports came after comedian Daniel Xuereb called Manché “Malta’s biggest asshole” and theatre director Sean Buhagiar repeated the phrase in support.

Manché said he reported them to the police because their comments “perpetuate the wave of hatred” against his church.

 He insists he reported Xuereb not because he called him an “asshole”  but because the comedian agreed with Bonanno and said the pastor should be carpet bombed.

“And it’s not just that. I get insulted frequently on the street and my children are often bullied at school, just because they’re my children and part of the church,” he said. “And those ‘asshole’ comments compound the hate there is out there.

“The comments will go over most people’s heads, and most will treat them as just jokes, I know that. But you only need one person, who might be mentally unfit, to do something to harm us. And what if they actually go ahead with it? This is no joke. These things happened in the US, France and other countries.

“Love takes many forms, and love also protects. And I am protecting my church and its people, many of whom are children.”

Manché insisted Bonanno’s comment is no joke, even though he is a comedian.

“Would we have reacted the same way if someone had said that they should carpet bomb the prime minister? We wouldn’t have said it was merely a joke.”

He also does not see how “simply hurling insults” can be considered an art.

I get insulted frequently on the street and my children are often bullied at school- Pastor Gordon Manché

“So, is this what freedom of expression has come to? Has it turned into justified bullying? Has bullying become an art now?

“I am a performing arts graduate. I used to dance, act and sing professionally before taking up a role in the church. So, I know what art is because I am also an artist, and a true artist does not bully people around.

“Because if everything, even hurtful actions, can be justified as a form of art. Then why don’t we also say that Daphne Caruana Galizia’s assassination was an artistic expression and protect it as if it were such? Why don’t we say the Ukraine war is an artistic expression and let everyone off scot-free? Would that be OK?”

This is also why the new law currently being discussed in parliament will make matters worse, Manché believes.

“I’m not offended by the word ‘asshole’. I never reported any artist for perverse jokes, even though many Christians find them hurtful and disgusting,” he said.

“But if those jokes turn into incitement of hatred or violence, then that’s completely different. And I intend to continue reporting comments that incite hatred and violence, even after the new law is approved.”

‘If you’re free to express yourself, then so am I’

Manché insists, however, that he is all for freedom of expression and does not want to take away anyone’s freedom to express themselves. If that is what makes other people happy, so be it.

But he expects other people to equally accept him and his church to express their faith freely.

“This government is all for the freedom of expression of comedians, but it would not allow one of our church members – Matthew Grech – to freely express his personal experience of how God changed him,” Manché said.

“Matthew is being charged in court for it and nobody is standing up for him. We are now choosing who has the right to express themselves.”

Grech is being charged in court for allegedly breaching Malta’s gay conversion therapy ban, which was introduced in 2016. He was reported for allegedly promoting conversion therapy when he appeared as a guest on a PMnews Malta website programme. But he says that all he did was share his experience as a former homosexual who “left homosexuality”.

Manché is also furious for being “completely” stonewalled by ministers Owen Bonnici and Byron Camilleri after he requested meetings with them multiple times.

“This government listens to everyone... but not to me, apparently. Considering that they legislate so much around our church, you would at least expect that they consult with me,” he said.

Sons of the devil

River of Love also landed in hot water last year, following the brutal murder of young Polish woman Paulina Dembska.

Abner Aquilina, who is being charged with her rape and murder and who denies the charges, was at a River of Love sermon on the eve of the murder and is seen in a Facebook video with people who would occasionally attend Manché’s church.

The pastor was not at all happy with the media linking Aquilina to his church, accusing journalists of spreading lies about him and River of Love.

Around that time he had also delivered a sermon, naming Jason Micallef, Gaby Calleja and then-Times of Malta journalist Ivan Martin by name accusing them of lies and implying they are the devil’s children.

“I hope they are watching this message,” he had said in the sermon.

“But I understand why they do it. Because if you haven’t experienced the love of God, you will act like your father. And there are only two fathers – the heavenly father and the devil. Your actions reflect who your father is. Like father, like son.”

The congregation must have liked the sound of that because it applauded and cheered him on.

And on a television show around the same time, Manché even pulled up pictures of Martin on the screen, accusing him of spreading lies.

Isn’t that also inciting hatred – and maybe even violence – against journalists? Not according to Manche.

“I was addressing Christian people in a biblical context. I still forgive them and pray for them but they were spreading lies about me. That’s not hatred. If you are a believer, spreading lies is a sin,” he said.

“So you can’t just take what I say out of context.”

And what about the time when Jesus said to his disciples to stop judging or they will be judged? What about turning the other cheek? Isn’t that how Manché should have acted in the face of that adversity, instead of calling people the sons of the devil?

He does not agree on that either.

Jesus never told his disciples to take whatever bad actions come their way, and wanted them to stand up for themselves, he said. But there is a problem with context as well. You cannot just take a few verses out of context without analysing them holistically in the context of the entire scriptures, he said.

Manché reiterated that Abner Aquilina only went to his church once, on the eve of the gruesome murder. He had never seen him before and had never spoken to him.

People walk in and out of sermons like they do in every other church and there is no membership, Manché said. And the people who brought Aquilina to church that day have not returned to River of Love for months. But he said he would like to one day meet Aquilina.

Police had called in the people who appeared in a Facebook video with Aquilina for questioning a few days after Dembska’s murder. But Manché is frustrated how the media linked River of Love to the murder.

“With all the other murders, nobody goes around asking where the murderer went to church the day before. So this was intended to specifically hurt our church.”

‘I am Jesus Christ’s parrot’

River of Love has probably received the most backlash for its teaching on homosexuality. Manché and his followers have publicly preached that God does not approve of homosexual acts and believers who accept Jesus Christ in their life will find they will also shed homosexuality as if it was another character flaw.

And in a country that has been repeatedly crowned as the most gay-friendly state in Europe and that is preparing to become its LGBTIQ capital in a few weeks, it did not go down well.

A few River of Love members also came out claiming that God has worked this miracle in their life, leading the government to come down like a ton of bricks on gay conversion therapy a few years ago. But Manché does not understand what is wrong with his teaching and refused to accept claims that he has an infatuation with homosexuality.

“Listen, if you are gay and happy, that’s fine. I’m not forcing anyone to change. But if you want to believe in God and follow the Bible, then you have to accept that you must change,” he said.

“It’s not me. Don’t say I’m saying this. It’s not Gordon, it’s God. It’s Jesus Christ. I am Jesus Christ’s parrot.”

And in a free and liberal country where anyone has the right to be anything, why cannot an adult homosexual person decide they want to modify their sexuality, Manché asked.

Is this what freedom of expression has come to? Has it turned into justified bullying? Has bullying become an art now?- Gordon Manché

He adamantly denied River of Love ever performed any form of conversion therapy and said the law is unfair, because it does not allow any person to even seek the help of a counsellor if they feel confused about their sexuality.

“People like Matthew Grech should not be incriminated for saying that their life was changed by God. He should be allowed to say that in a free country, but he was charged because someone was offended by it. Where is the freedom of expression?”

Manché said he never felt sexual urges towards other men, but was often thought to be gay when he worked as a professional ballet dancer. People would urge him to get out of the closet and some men would even flirt with him. He said he never felt the urge but many people do “because society hijacks you in this day and age”.

Surprisingly, Manché said he has no problem with the Europride celebration coming up in September, as long as the people at the pride do not trample on other people’s rights to express their beliefs.

“If this is your life and you’re proud of it, go ahead. If you want. To march for the freedom and civil rights we achieve, fair enough, praise God. But don’t take away my freedom,” he said.

“But I do have a problem with behaviour. What is the limit to our freedom? Are we going to be fine with naked people on the streets in front of children, for instance? What if there are 100 people having sex in public? Is that OK because we have the freedom?”

You can watch a longer version of the interview here.